Doc Stevens

Tondeleo: I'm back in the States after being gone for five months. I've been mired in work and have had absolutely no time to transcribe conversations with Doc, Marilyn and their friends. I feel dreadful about this, but life happens. Actually, life happens while you're waiting for life to happen. I'm learning that as I grow older! 


I'm in awe of the weather on the east coast here in the States! I have been here since the week before Christmas and it has been unseasonably warm and quite nice, even though it has rained a lot. It still isn't as damp as England. I love this! I'm outside with just a tshirt and even wearing short trousers!

Being New Years Eve, I'm wondering what Doc, Big Dave and Rick are going to do. Maybe tonight they'll break their teetotaling ways. Once can only hope. All three of them had had problems due to their drinking in times past and all of them come from families where alcoholism runs deep. I get that. But that isn't MY background! And here I am stuck out living in a cabin in the woods with these three tee totaling musicians and their dogs and instruments.

 Doc was just talking about how every year his father would drink up their Christmas and nobody got any gifts. His dad's head hurt so bad that everyone had to be quiet and tiptoe around the house. Doc's dad was big and acted like a bear with a headache. And Doc would've kept up the family tradition if not for a few miracles.

Doc said, "As much as I hated my daddy, I was growin' up to be just like him. When he would walk across a bar, other men would point to him and say, 'there's a dangerous man.' That's what I wanted to be, a dangerous man. And I was workin' on it pretty well, but like my daddy, I found out that no matter how dangerous you are, you're gonna run into someone more dangerous than you."

"Plus, it's better to go to an AA meeting if I want to get together with my old drinking buddies. They have sober parties, and it's easier to stay sober if everyone else is..."

Big Dave added, "Yeh, I grew up the same way. Daddy and mama was always fightin'  over his drinkin' and fightin'. It weren't no fun for us kids. Not at all. Far as I'm concerned, alcohol ain't good for nothin' but pourin' on cuts."

Doc agreed. "I ain't taken a drink in years. I don't go to no bars. You can have a few shots of liquor and start lookin' for a fight. Liquor makes a angry man more angry... Do y'all have AA in England, Tondy?"


I assured him that we did, which he marveled at. looked over to Rick, who'd been sitting over in the corner quietly. He said, "i'm more peaceful than these guys. My dad taught us that you shouldn't go looking for fights, because there's always a fight looking for you. And you shouldn't think someone is being mean just because he's running his mouth. It might just be that he's ignorant and doesn't know any better. We were raised to just quietly slip out and go home if we could... or go stand by someone like Doc - let HIM be the target!

Doc and Big Dave got into a discussion of the nice cars and pickups that they'd had but had wrecked them due to drinking. Both of them talked about miracles that happened to keep them from getting killed. Doc had a couple of guitars that were destroyed by his automobile accidents. 

"I broke a good Telecaster in a fight once, hitting a guy what pulled a knife on me. He never knew what hit him. A Tele weighs like 9 pounds. It's a pretty good weapon. But if we'd all been sober, I'd still would've had that guitar."

Rick added that he threw up into a harmonica once. Well, actually twice. 

I have a lot of catching up to do with Doc, Big Dave, Rick, Marilyn and all their friends. I look forward to taking more pictures, recording more conversations and doing more blog posts than I did last year! And I guess I'll get a good start, because none of them are going anywhere to celebrate. Marilyn and her husband David are going to church! She said they want to start the new year with God and with taking communion...  I almost went with them, just to get out of the house, but then she said the communion at her church isn't wine, it's just grape juice.

Ok. I'll stay home, be safe, get some sleep and wake up with a clear head tomorrow. Could be worse.


 

Tondeleo: Doc has always enjoyed traveling - or rambling and roving. Sometimes he refers to it as being a hobo.  He says when the travel bug bites, he has to take off. When Marilyn was dropped off for him to raise, he had to cut back on his traveling to just a bit here and there, and for shirt little trips and time off.

Doc: "Yeah, I had to cut way back on my hobo ways when my brother's wife dropped her off here on her way to Tennessee with that piece of trash what she met at the carnival. Marilyn was about 10 or 11 and couldn't be left on her own, so it was up to me to be there for her and look out for her. Plus them socialist services was on my case all the time tryin' to catch me messin' up. I had to watch my p's and q's, which included not takin' off so much."

That seems to be a pretty common phenomenon among him and his friends. They can talk for hours about the various times they just "took off," to wander around the country for a spell. Some of them have spent years at a time hopping trains, and just going wherever the trains took them. To support themselves, they'd steal food or anything they thought they could get by with taking and then sell very cheaply. Doc won't talk much about what he calls the days of his darkness. Especially not with Marilyn around.

But he does talk about the urge to wander and roam. He talks about some of the good times, anyway. From what I could tell, the travel bug would bite whenever there was financial pressure, work pressure, family pressure or any other kind of pressure. When the pressure builds up too much for alcohol to wash it away, they would take off. They might just start walking. Just walk out the door with nothing but the clothes on their back, and keep on going.

Doc: You gotta go when you gotta go. It gets too much to be stayin' in one place and then that open road starts callin' and you gotta answer. I've hopped trains, hitch hiked, walked, took buses when I could do some work for a few dollars, and then one day you wake up an' you're ready to go back home an' see your friends an' family. Dependin' on where you are, it might take a couple weeks to make it back. Home seems better when you're far away and been gone awhile.

Once you been gone a while, you can remember all that's good about it and how the folks back home ain't that bad, and they mean well and how deep down in your heart you really do love them. Well, most of 'em.

I always take a guitar along. Usually my oldest Tele. That guitar's been a friend of mine for years an' years an' been on many 'ventures with me. I can count on being able to make a few dollars singing on the streets with that Tele and my battery powered amp, or play indoors with other people and pick up a few bucks.

Once people here you singin' and playin' and find out you're not a crazy person, you can get invited to their place to play at a party or barbecue or whatever. Mostly it's about playin' and  singin' the kind of stuff they want to hear, an' also about bein' friendly and not scary. A lot of homeless people scare people away as a way of protectin' themselves. I can take care of myself, and for me, bein' funny works most of the time.

I like going to churches and missions to play for 'em and share my testimony. Sometimes they give you a love offerin' and put you up for the night.The preacher might meet you for breakfast in the mornin' if you told your testimony well an' if the folks got touched or someone got saved. Oh yeah, I also take a Bible with me when I go ramblin'.

So I ask, "Doc, what is it that makes a man want to ramble, as you put it? How do you know when it's time to take off? What about the people in your life, like your family or boss or your friends?"

Doc: "Well, Tondy, it ain't somethin' you choose. A restless feelin' comes on you and won't leave. You start dreamin' about places far away an' wantin' to be there. Even if you don't leave, you're no good where you are. You're heart's not in it and your mind's not in it. You're better off just takin' off an' gettin' it outta your system."

Me: "But what about the people you leave behind? What about your boss?"

Doc: Well, when that bug hits you hard enough that you gotta roam, they all know it, and they are pretty ready for you to go. If you're poor, your job ain't much anyway. You get a little hard to deal with, and usually the boss man is about ready to let you go from the job. You ain't really hurtin' no one. I know, they cry a bit an' fuss, but they know that a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, and that you'll be back when you can. And then everybody's happy when you get back. Plus, you got new stories for them from faraway places."

You know what else, Tondy? If a man's gonna be poor, he ought to at least see some sights Y'all forget that poor folks can't go on vacations an' cruises an' all that. We work, we find some way to chill out, like drinkin' or smokin' weed for some, or playin' music - for some, it's drinkin', smokin' weed an' playin' music all at the same time - or goin' to church and gettin' on fire for the Lord.

That's one reason why a lot of our churches are more excitin' than the churches where richer people goes.
Church is all the excitement we got, if we ain't drinkin', druggin' or ramblin'. When I cut back on my ramblin', Marilyn and the people at her church got me goin' to church an' castin' my cares on the Lord. That's kept me calm and gave me a peace that passes understandin'.

People like you got money enough for vacations, travel and what not and you got money for them therapists and all that. We ain't got none of that. But like I said, I ain't done much ramblin' and wild cattin' since Marilyn came here. I had to stick around no matter how bad the itch got to take off. But nowadays, I can come and go as I please an' it keeps the pressure from buildin' up makin' me want to leave. Bein' with the Lord and His people has made all the difference in the world for me.

Tondeleo: The conversation about using deer hair as insurance led into another one relating to auto insurance, this one which was a clumsy attempt at insurance fraud by one of Doc and Big Dave’s friends.

Doc: Yeah, Tondy, here’s one for you. A few years ago, Porky Burch got drunk and wrecked his pickup into a tree. He had insurance on it, which surprised me. It was a new truck, at least new for what it was. Probably maybe five years old, It was worth puttin’ insurance on, if you had the money. But anyway, Porky was drunk and didn’t want the cops in on it. I didn’t know all that at the time.

Anyways, he walked over to Duncan Williams’ house, we call him Dunk, and gets Dunk to run him over here. It was about three in the mornin’ at that time. Porky asks me to come and drag his car over here and sit it behind my shop till he could get it fixed.

So I get out my loggin’ chains and we ride over there in my panel truck and we drug it back onto the road, and Marilyn sat behind the wheel to steer it, cause Porky was still drunk, and we drug it home and set it behind my shop. No problem.

Well, he came by and took his stereo and speakers out of it. Then it sat back there for a couple months and one night Porky and Dunk came by. They’d been drinkin’ and said they was takin’ Porky’s truck. They had Dunk’s father-in-law’s truck and a chain. I asked about how come he weren’t getting’ me to fix it and he said he WAS, but he had to take it somewhere first.

Well, what they did was, they towed it about ten miles on that chain, and then pushed it up against a tree, like it had just wrecked into the tree. Porky also put a guitar what he had broke one time when he was drunk and mad, and he put it in the passenger seat, like it had got broke in the accident.

Then, they went to Scott’s Store and used the pay phone out front to call the Sheriff, to report it stolen! Porky said he’d been in Scott’s all evenin’ and when he came out, his truck was gone! He was drunk, but he weren’t drivin’ so the cops let him alone on that one.

He told the cops what it looked like, Tondy, and they started lookin’ for it. About two hours later, one of ‘em found it, smashed into that tree!

Now, Porky figured he’d be able to get some ‘surance money out of it, and then they could bring it to my shop and get me to fix it for about half what he got paid for it! I didn’t know that at the time neither.

But guess what?

Tondeleo: What?

Doc: The cops called a tow truck. Tow truck driver pulled it back from the tree. Then they looked inside, and the keys was in it! Not Porky’s WHOLE key ring, cause he needed his other keys, just his truck keys! His keys were in the ignition, Tondy!

And the radio was missin’, but taken out real neat! And his guitar was in its case in the front seat! The case weren’t tore up! Just the guitar in it was broke up!

Worser than that, where the paint had gotten knocked off when he wrecked it a couple months before, was all rusted! And worser than that, the tree where they had pushed it into, wasn’t even scarred up or hurt! They had just pushed it up against the tree!

The cops figured out right quick what happened.

They went to Porky’s house to tell him they found his truck. Of course, Porky had drunk another couple of beers, thinkin’ about all that insurance money he was gonna get.

All they said was, “Mr. Burch, we found your truck…”

Old Porky’s first words to the cops was, “Did they wreck it real bad? I hope they ain’t stole my radio, it was worth a thousand bucks, which it weren’t, he’d got it on sale at the Wal-Mart. And then he kept sayin’ “How about my guitar? Was it broke up real bad?” and stuff like that.

The cops said it looked like it’s been wrecked a good long time, and that there was no skid marks, no damage to the tree or the guitar case, and whoever took the radio did a real careful job on it.

Porky kept sayin’ it had just been stole, and what was they gonna do to get him his insurance money for his truck, his radio and his guitar and was they gonna get him a rent a car.

Then the cops talked about lockin’ him up for lyin’ and filin a false report and a bunch of other stuff. Dunk said Porky just hung his head and cried like a baby!

I know he got charged with somethin’ on that one. He had to go to court. And he never got the money to fix it, neither! It sat back there in his back yard for a couple years. I ain’t never fixed it. He traded it for a old 4 by 4 that was a piece of junk, but it run good. Now that’s crazy ain’t it? Drinkin’ don’t pay. Not in the long run.

Tondeleo: I am never certain when to take seriously the things said by Americans. They have an inherent love of taking the mickey out of you, and just about the time you are believing them, they begin to laugh and you feel a right fool.

Big Dave showed me a small plastic bag filled with stiff brown and white hairs, clearly from an animal. He asked if I knew what they were for, and I said that I didn’t.

Here is how the conversation developed:

Big Dave: Tondy, this is a bag of insurance.

Me: A bag of WHAT?

Big Dave: A bag of insurance. You carry it in your car or truck, Tondy.

Me: Well, it resembles a bag of bristles, of hairs, Big Dave.

Big Dave: To the untrained eye, that is exactly what it is. But to the expert eye, it is a bag of insurance. Here, look at it up close.

Marilyn: It’s a bag of DEER HAIR, Tondy!

Big Dave: It IS deer hair in its lowest form. Insurance in its highest.

Say, if a man has had a few beers, and ends up runnin’ off the road into a tree. If the cops come by, he’s gonna be in trouble. If he gots insurance, they ain’t gonna pay. BUT! If he kicks a part of his car, say the front fender, real hard, and then spits in the bag deer hairs, they become insurance!

Me: Insurance?

Doc: Yeah, Tondy, insurance.

Big Dave: You spit into the bag of deer hairs, then you take ‘em in your hand and smear a few in the dent you made by kickin’ your fender. Put a couple of ‘em in your headlight rim.

Then you, well, that man what hit the tree, can say that a deer run into his truck, and he hit it, and ran off the road and into that tree. That’s a lot better to a cop or a insurance company than you just havin’ a couple of beers and hittin’ that tree.

Doc: I ain’t never did that, but I heard of people what done it. Lotta people carry a little packet of deer hair in they car or truck. Say it’s good luck.

I fixed plenty of peoples’ cars what had dents on ‘em and deer hair in the dents. A deer can tear up a car real bad. A deer hittin’ your car is bad luck.

Big Dave: But deer HAIR is GOOD luck if a man runs off the road. He sprinkles them deer hair on the dent and it brings good luck, Tondy!

Marilyn: Yes, but it ain’t right.

Doc: That’s why I ain’t never done it, Marilyn. I only hit real deers.

Big Dave: And I pull some hairs off ‘em for good luck. But I ain’t never did it neither. Just heard about it bein’ done by crooks. It ain’t right.

Tondeleo: One thing that fascinated me when I first began working around real American rural musicians is that they did not all play bluegrass music. That is the stereotype that we hold of them: blowing on moonshine jugs, playing banjo’s, mandolins, jaw harps, violins and guitars.

When I met Doc and his friends several years ago, they described what they played as “downhome country blues roots.” It is a mix of country, blues and a fair bit of early rock and roll. I was curious as to how this fit in with the stereotype that we have of these people playing nothing but bluegrass.

Following is an interview I had with Doc and Big Dave a couple of years ago.

Doc: Why don’t we play bluegrass? Well, we ain’t got no banjo’s or violins or mandolins first off, Tondy. We got guitars, I got a bass and we got amps. Bluegrass don’t like basses and amps and electric guitars. But we do.

My family was tryin’ to get away from all that when we was comin’ up. People called us hillbillies and my Grand dad said we needed to quit lookin’ and talkin’ like hillbillies or we ain’t never gonna have anything or amount to nothin.’

Big Dave: I don’t like bluegrass. Ain’t nobody told me to. It just reminds me of my old man. He listened to bluegrass all the time. If it wasn’t his friends comin’ by and playin’ it at the house, it was on the radio. It got bad memories for me. It gets on my nerves.

Tondeleo: Bluegrass gets on your nerves? I thought all rural Americans thrived on bluegrass!

Big Dave: Well, you thought wrong, little buddy.

Doc: We don’t play bluegrass. I never learned it. When I was comin’ up I learned from my grand dad and uncles, and their friends. Some was white and some was black. We all learned each other’s songs. But he steered us away from bluegrass.

I been to places where all they play is bluegrass, and I can be playin’ along, and some office boy what took “bluegrass lessons” will watch me a few minutes and then tell me that I am not playin’ “bluegrass chords.” Bluegrass chords? What’s that? I never learnt no bluegrass chords. I ain’t never took lessons.

I learned a lot of what I play from being in the drink houses. That was whites and blacks and mixed people. Just poor people what had problems and still wanted to sing. Mostly they ain’t know what they was playin’ as far as chords go. They just figured out what sounded good.

I ain’t know the names of all the chords. I know more than some people does, as for the names, but not all of them.I just play what I seen other people play an’ I have some what I figured out, and I slide ‘em up and down the neck to make different ones. That’s what mostly I seen comin’ up.

We’d take our guitars and go to the drink house and eat and talk and play music.

Tondeleo: Drink houses. What are drink houses?

Doc: A drink house is what they have a lot of down south, in North Carolina especially. If they ain't a bar in the area where you can go down for a drink or play some music, a person might just open their house up as a drink house.

You can’t just go and hang out in a bar all night if you ain’t drinkin’ and if you’re dirty from work, they ain’t like that too much neither. A drink house is where poor folks go to hang out and talk and drink and relax.

It's just a person’s house, and they might have they livin’ room or back room with a little bar in it, and a few beers in the ‘frigerator, and maybe a few bottles of liquor in the cabinet. You give 'em a couple of bucks and they give you a shot of whiskey or a beer. Maybe even a dollar might get you a sip, if all you got is a dollar. You can just hang out there and talk of play music or whatever you want, as long as you're not causing any trouble.

People in the neighborhood'll come by. Some will pull up in their car and come in just for a drink and leave. Others hang out there all day or evening.It’s a place to hang out, to talk, meet people and swap songs and learn a little by watchin’ what the other guy is doin’ and listenin’ to how he is playin’ and then do it yourself. You can learn a lot that way.

Sometimes they got a radio on, and you can learn some songs that way. That’s where some of the songs we play come from. That and old records we found here and there.

Big Dave: Yeah. I used to go to drink houses when I was in western North Carolina. It was just a cheap place to go and waste some time, and eat a sandwich and play music.

Some of 'ems open just some days or some evenin's and others is open day or night, seven days a week. Some's got a poker game in the back room or out on the picnic table in the back yard in the summer.

Some got a room fixed up where you can play music inside, with a little stage area over in the corner.

Some sell drugs, some don't. Some sell about anything a person could want, if they know you or you is family to a friend of theirs.

I never went for that. I just went for a sandwich, some music and some place to go before going back to my room to sleep.

Doc: You ain’t got to be a drunk or druggie to go to drink houses. I went for the food and music mostly and people what don’t have any money or good clothes got to be able to go someplace, too after work. Where else are we gonna go?

And that’s where we learnt to play and where we learnt the songs we sing. A bit of everything. Hank Williams, Webb Pierce and all them from my grand dad and uncles and they’s friends, and then John Lee Hooker, BB King, Albert King and a bunch of others from the drink houses.

Really, you got to know all of it so you can make a few dollars. We play some places where it is mostly white people and they want that country music what they call roots. So we play it. Some people think we only play country.

Some places we play is like we are the only white folks there. We play blues; John Lee Hooker, Artie White and BB King and all those kinds of songs there. They ain’t never hear us play country.

Sometimes we play where it is mixed and we do mixed music there. A bit of blues, a bit of country. Whatever they want. We play Gospel too, Tondy! We learnt that at church. But also at drink houses and from family. Most poor folks go to church some time in their life, because life is hard and they need help from the Lord. I need help from the Lord.

And me and Marilyn like singin’ and playin’ Gospel music. It reaches down deep inside you.

Tondeleo: I know, I’ve heard you do that, and I quite like it, I do…

Doc: We like that Gospel, Tondy. Not the new stuff. The old stuff. When a man is poor and can’t deal with his problems, he can turn to drinkin’ and drugs, or he can turn to the Lord. I been turnin’ to the Lord when I get down in the mully grubs, and sometimes I can just pick up my guitar and sing a while and I feel all better. We play Gospel around the house a lot. A whole lot.

Tondeleo: Unlike in the UK where we have a good system of resources for the homeless, including dosshouses ("homeless shelters" in the US) in the cities, that can provide shelter for hundreds of people, in the US, there are just not that many good solid resources. Part of this seems to come from the American mentality of "if we reward non achievement, we'll get more of it." In other words, if they make it easier to live without having a job, more people wlll quit their jobs and go into government provided shelters.

Of course, this does not take into account the fact that many are jobless and homeless against their wills, and have absolutely no desire to be taken care of by Big Brother. There are some cities in America where "tent villages" are tolerated, but this is a relatively new phenomenon.

Doc and I were talking about this, and I wanted his take on it, since he has been poor all of his life, and has been homeless from time to time. He has talked about this in other posts, but there is such an increase in the jobless and the homeless, it seems as though one could talk about it and share experiences almost endlessly.

Doc: Yeah, I been homeless. Not since takin' Marilyn in, but afore that, yeah. I ain't usually stay homeless for long, just a few weeks at a time til I could get some money together an' get a motel room or 'ficiency apartment. But yeah I been homeless.

You gotta be real careful when you're homeless. Lotsa reasons. There is the weather, in the winter, even down south. And cops what think you're a drug addict or wino which I was not and a lot of homeless people are not. People think you're mental or crazy an' want you off the streets or they think you're gonna rob them or steal from them or hurt their kids. And some people does do them things, and it ain't always homeless people what does them.

One thing what is hard when you're homeless is to stay off the sauce...

Tondeleo: What sauce?

Doc: Alcohol. You get down on yourself an' on your life and think things won't get any better an' it's more than you can stand. It's easy to take a couple of bucks and buy a bottle of liquor and try to forget about your problems so you can sleep. But you gotta stay away from that, or it'll take over your life. Well, for me it would.

You ain't got much money, an' food is hard to come by, but liquor ain't. So you spend what money you got for liquor instead of food, an' now you're not eatin' but drinkin' and you ain't thinkin' right. That is a hard one to stay away from when you're homeless. But if you don't stay away from it, it'll keep you homeless. Drugs, too. When you you're down in the mullygrubs 'cause you're broke and out of work and not eatin' right, and if you got pains and ain't sleepin' right, it's easy to start doin' pills or smokin' weed to make yourself feel better. That can lead you down a path you have to stay strong to keep off of. Ain't nobody never planned on bein' a drunk or drug addict, but millions is. You gotta say away from it.

Tondeleo: How did you stay away from it?

Doc: I mostly stick to myself, even now, Tondy. On the streets, I kept to myself. When you're first homeless, you think you need to be with the other guys what's homeless, to keep you encouraged, and maybe for protection. It ain't worth it, cause they ain't gonna protect you. They'll steal from you and take anything you got when you're sleepin'. And some of them is crazy. They might get it in their head that you are the caused of they's problems and might wanna kill you.

Some of them is vets and they got that BBSB [PTSD] and they scream out at night, of freak out for no reason. Others is on drugs an' will rip you off in a heartbeat. There is some really violent people out there, and I got tired of the gossip and thinkin' everybody is out to get you that they had. I didn't want to get that way myself, which be easy to happen. Plus I ain't like fightin' so I stuck to myself.

Tondeleo: How did you stay warm in the winter? Did you build a campfire and sleep beside it?

Doc: A CAMPFIRE? No! Not where ever I was homeless! You can't build a fire in town. Cops'll get you and throw you in the can. No, that ain't how you keep warm. We mostly would go behind a store and get cardboard. You need cardboard under you to keep you off the ground. Otherwise it'll give you arthritis or room a tism sleeping on the ground.So get cardboard to sleep on. Then you need some over you. A fridgerator box is a good thing, cause you can sleep in it and it keeps the wind off you. You can make a lean to, and use the back of the store for one wall. That's the way we done it mostly.

I was up north one winter and on the streets for a couple weeks. What I learned up there was to get a pair of coveralls from the thrift store, and I would wad up newspapers and stuff them down in it so I looked like a snow man. Newspapers'll keep the body heat in. In the morning, you take 'em out and put them under the cardboard so they'll be there when you come back at night.

You got to keep your area clean, not messy. You don't want them throwin' away your cardboard and papers and you ain't got nothin' when you come back at night. Here's another way. Get a hot water bottle at Dollar General or Wal Mart. Go into the bathroom at a gas station or Wal Mart or wherever and fill it with as hot of water as you can. Put that inside your clothes and it will keep you warm at night. You got to stay warm or it will mess up your thinking and you might go psycho. Least that's what they say, and I ain't gonna find out.

People is scared of homeless people. Think you're psycho. You gotta do all you can to not seem like a psycho. And you got to keep lookin' for work.

Doc: OK. A lot of poor folks does drugs, drinks too much and gambles and some steal when they can. People with money say them things is what causes poverty. I aint sayin' that. Those things is traps for the poor and keeps 'em oppressed.

Big Dave: Doc's right, Tondy. Rich people does drugs and poor people does drugs, but it is different. Poor folks are on the edge and have no room for making mistakes. Rich people do drugs for fun or to feel better just like poor people do. But rich people get their doctors to subscribe the pills for them. The cops aren't gonna hassle rich people because they got lawyers, and nothing is going to happen to them anyway. Rich people mostly don't go to jail.

Doc: And ain't all people does things for the same reasons. Some just aint know no better. Like when I was a boy, my daddy gave me beer since long as I can remember. Maybe two or 3 years old. I didn't like it at first an' he would put salt in it to take off the edge. He told my mama that it canceled out the alcohol. I didn't never like beer too much, but it made him and his friends laugh so I would do it. And it made me feel like a little man. They gave me cigarettes too, Tondy. My uncles smoked reefer and when I was maybe 12 they would offer it to me.

I aint never tasted whiskey til I was maybe 12 or 13. I took one drink and I liked it. It just felt right in my mouth and felt like a old friend. I just liked it alot. Drinkin' runs in my family and it is in the blood. So that's how I got started. But that's just me.

Big Dave: I was about 10 or 12. My daddy had a few bottles around the cabin, an' I got a taste for it on my own. Daddy drank it, so I wanted to be like Daddy and I would sneak a drink whenever I could when I was younger than 10. But when I was 10 or 12, my cousin Earl gave me a bottle of whiskey that he'd tooken from somewhere and we went out behind the barn and drank it. Drank the whole bottle!

Doc: Same with drugs. I ain't never been too much on drugs, but a lot of people is. Some of it comes from their own family, their mama or daddy. Older brothers and sisters can get you started. Might be a thing where all your friends does it and you just want to fit in.

Big Dave: Here's somethin' else about drugs, Tondy. Folks what gots insurance when they get down in the mullygrubs or whatever it is that makes them feel bad, they go to a psychiatrist or whatever doctor they go to, and he will write 'em a subscription for some drugs an' they feel more relaxed. It ain't against the law.

Doc: But if a person is poor and gets down and depressed, they ain't got insurance. They might be able to go to socialist services an' get someone to give them some pills. But guess what? That person gots rent to pay, or the light bill. So he or she might be able to get the pills. But then they is needin' money and they got a neighbor or someone who will give them money for it.

But they still got bills to pay. But they still is feelin' down in the dumps. But now they got money to pay a bill and maybe $10 or 20 bucks to buy some weed to use instead of those pills. But it's against the law.

Take that same person, if he got laid off his job, an' he cain't find work, he is a sure target for become a drug dealer. Not 'cause he is tryin' to be a criminal, but 'cause he is tryin' to eat and pay bills. Lotsa times, he ain't tryin' to get someone to start doin' drugs, just he is tryin' to make a couple of bucks off the people he knows what is already doin' them, an' maybe sell them drugs a little cheaper to them. But that still makes him a drug dealer. And it's against the law.

But he ain't thinkin' of himself as a criminal and most the times, he ain't gettin' rich. Heck, he usually ain't got nothin! Most the drug dealers I know ain't got nothin' more than I got. Matter of fact, I got more than a lot of them. I got a bungalow, a little shop for workin' on cars and a little place to grow some veggies. I'm a blessed man, Tondy. I don't do no drugs, but I ain't lookin' down on everyone what does do drugs. I ain't lookin' down on a man who is sellin' some drugs to feed his family when he is desperate. He is wrong, and he might go to jail, and he is deceived. But I care about him an' hope he can get a real job and cut out sellin' drugs and hope he can go through the day without usin' drugs.

Tell you what, without the Lord, I ain't no different or no better than anybody else. Don't ever look down on a man what is goin' through a hard time and the devil is on his back. You pray for him and try to lift him up.

Big Dave: Now someone who sells drugs to kids is no good. That person ought to be stopped right now. He ain't tryin' to pay bills, he is a predator. He needs to turn away from that mess right now!

Doc: Right is right an' wrong is wrong. But you gotta have compassion on folks, too, Tondy. A lot of poor folks does drugs, drinks too much and gambles and some steal when they can. People with money say them things is what causes poverty. I aint sayin' that.

A lot of rich people does drugs, too, And drinks too much too. An' alot of rich peoples steals too. But they can steal with they's computers an' ain't nobody knows it 'til the banks collapse. Poor folks steal with guns an' knives. Rich folks steal with computers.

Tondy, the economy bein' so bad aint from poor folks and it ain't from immigrants. It's from the rich folks takin' everything they could from everybody else they could. And the heads all them companies ain't all white men, neither. I heard on NPR [National Public Radio in the USA] that they was whites, blacks, asians, spanics an' folks what was mixed who was heads of them banks. So it ain't all the white men makin' the economy bad. It is selfish folks.

Different people does different things for different reasons. Ain't all people does things for the same reasons. Some just aint know no better. Like when I was a boy, my daddy gave me beer since long as I can remember. Maybe two or 3 years old. I didn't like it at first an' he would put salt in it to take off the edge.

He told my mama that it canceled out the alcohol. I didn't never like beer too much, but it made him and his friends laugh so I would do it. And it made me feel like a little man. They gave me cigarettes too, Tondy. My uncles smoked reefer and when I was maybe 12 they would offer it to me.

I ain't never tasted whiskey til I was maybe 12 or 13. I took one drink and I liked it. It just felt right in my mouth and felt like a old friend. I just liked it alot. Drinkin' runs in my family and it is in the blood. So that's how I got started. But that's just me.

Same with drugs. I ain't never been too much on drugs, but a lot of people is. Some of it comes from their own family, their mama or daddy. Older brothers and sisters can get you started. Might be a thing where all your friends does it and you just want to fit in.

If you aint raised in church, you don't know it's wrong, it's just somethin' to do, an' everybody else does it, so it must be ok. Even some of the cops says they do it when they's off duty, an' a lot of cops is heavy drinkers.

But here's difference if you're poor and start drinkin' an' smokin' pot and then get to sellin' it. First, you ain't got nothin' goin' for you in the first place, so you ain't thinkin' you got nothin' to lose.

If you're livin' in a motel or little apartment an' there aint nothin' to do, you can be sure one of your neighbors is gonna sell you some pot. And if you ain't servin' the Lord real strong, you gonna smoke it. It's the only break you might get from stress an' all that.

Drinkin' is the same way. Wherever you got poor folks, you gotta liquor store close by, within walkin' distance most the time. So poor folks is gonna go to the liquor store when they's bored. They gonna go when they is stressed. They gonna go when they had a argument with they's family. They gonna go to the liquor store when the boss man fires 'em and they gonna go when they cain't pay the rent an' they's all tore up about it. Poor folks got more reasons to drink an' less options than folks with money.

Gamblin' is somethin' else what poor people stakes more on than folks with money. A poor man knows he ain't got no chance to make big money in his life, an' ain't none of his poor relatives gonna die an' leave him anything. Mostly, when one of our people dies, we all end up passin' the hat for money an' whoever in the family is workin' ends up footin' the bill. An' there is always some in the family what ain't never paid toward no one's funeral.

A poor man will try to buy a couple of lottery tickets whenever he can. It's his only chance. It might be enough to pay his rent, or to buy a car. He might win enough to be a millionaire! Like they say, "you gotta play to win." Folks with money ain't see the lottery as their only hope. It is just something to do for them.

That is why it is a good thing to find a way to not be poor, an' to get better friends what will help you stay sober an'to do the right thing. You is a friend like that Tondy.

You need good friends. Marilyn got a few good friends by goin' to church. They is good people.

Sometimes gettin' in trouble helps. My parole officer one time a long time ago said the Lord'll let you get in hot water to clean up your act. A good scarin' can make a man do better.

You also gotta have a gold [goal], a reason to pull yourself outtat the gutter. Learnin' a trade is a good thing. For me, playin' guitar helped. Takin' care of Marilyn helped. Gettin' right with the Lord gave me the strength I needed. I still need to pray and talk to the Lord for strength, Tondy.

Tondeleo: During some of my interviews with Doc Stevens on poverty and the lifestyles of the poor and anonymous : ], he tells me stories that are just beyond my scope of life experience. He told me this one about domestic violence, a man hitting his girlfriend, and why it was good that the man did not at least spend the night in jail. Doc's friend Big Dave was there during the interview, and was in agreement. Here is an edited version of this incident. By the way, these pictures are not from the scene. They are some I found online to illustrate the story. If any of them are yours and you don't want them here, tell me and I'll take them down.

Doc: I don't believe in a man hittin' a woman or kids, 'cept spankin' a kid what is askin' for it if you know what I mean. Mostly the mama ought to do that. But sometimes it happens. No doubt. I don't ever approve of it. I ain't never hit a woman, but I been around plenty of women what would push a man to the limit! But I stay away from big mouth women and women what's pushy.

Big Dave: I HAVE hit a woman before. Didn't want to, but she asked for it. She been drinkin liquor and gettin' mouthy and was shovin' people around. We was in a bar what I was playin' at over to Tennessee, in Kingsport, and she was gettin' loud and the bouncer came over and told me to get her under control or leave. I couldn't do anything with her. I didn't even like her that well. She was a big gal, sort of a horse type. Maybe 225 - 250 pounds. I tried to get her to leave and she started cussin' me and shovin' and she hit me in the face andd without even thinking, I hit her and restrained her and took her back to the motel and left her there. I'm not proud of it, Tondeleo, but it gets rough out here. American women aren't as respectable acting as English women are.

Tondy: We have English women who can get mouthy after a couple of pints...

Doc: Well, here's somethin' what happened with the guy in the room next to me and' can help someone understand some of what goes on in a person's life.

Like a couple years ago I was stayin' in a motel down south for a couple months. The guy in the room next to me had his old lady, his two boys, his girl and his brother all stayin' in the one room. After work, I'd go over to talk for a couple of minutes, bein' neighborly.

His brother worked at a junkyard [auto breakers - Tondeleo] for about $25 a day, so he aint got no money for rentin' his own place. AJ [the guy who was Doc's neighbor], worked at another junkyard for eight bucks an hour. AJ got a car at least. It aint much but it's a car.

Him and Eddie [the brother] rides to work together every day, and the old lady stays there in the room with the youngest boy. The other two is in school, so they's gone all day til about 3 or 4. Then she got to deal with them, and TV and trying to come up with something to put in the microwave.

She's tired of bein' broke an' never havin' any time to herself and puttin' up with the kids whinin.' When AJ an' Eddie comes home from work, they don't walk to walk in on all that. They tend to stop off and play a video game up the liquor store an' they each get a 20 oz as a break from work an' to rest afore goin' home.

When they get there, Lillian's tired and grouchy and the kids are fussin' and whinin' and Lillian's tired of bein' crowded in one room. All them sharin' one toilet, an' Eddie got bad gas and can sit on a toilet til he's got ring around the rosey. He just does that to get away from AJ, Lillian and the kids. When Lillian's on her time of month, and Eddie's on the toilet, and the kids are fightin, and AJ's yellin' for them all to shut up it gets crazy.

Big Dave: You know, that's when AJ shoulda gone to the carry out or somewhere and calmed down and Lillian had fallen asleep. That woulda done it, and Eddie coulda gone with him.

Doc: Yeah, but he ain't got enough money to do that and still pay the rent.

My room is on one side of them, and in the room on the other side is Clifford and Marquita who both does crack and drink and fight alot. They aint like hearin all the drama over at AJ's every night. AJ and Eddie listens to country music kinda loud and Clifford and Marquita is into rap. Loud rap, so they is all of them sick and tired of each other and everything else. But really they is friends. You got to be when you are living that close and need each other to help out sometime, and you don't want to be fightin' your neighbor.

So, one night, AJ and Eddie walk in, an' he had bought two lotto tickets, and had drank a 20 ounce and bought cigarettes for hisself but he aint bought none for Lillian. She's havin' a nicotine fit, and the kids been worse n' usual, hittin, and bitin' each other an' won't calm down.

Lillian's all over AJ like ants on hard candy about not gettin' her cigarettes. He smokes Camels and she smokes Newports. He tells her he had to have some Camels to keep him calm comin' home to her every night an' dealin' with her, the kids and her mouth. Eddie puts his two cents worth in and tells her to shut her big mouth.

Now she's up in AJ's face waggin' her head and lookin' wild eyed, and cussin' at Eddie and tellin' him to shut up an' Eddies tellin' her to make him shut up, the kids are screamin' and cryin' and then Clifford comes over and tells them all to shut up. Lillian tells him to mind his own business, and gets in his face, which gets Marquita out there tellin' Lillian don't talk to her man like that, and comes over to slap Lillian's face and get in a girl fight.

Now all the people is out there watchin' and shoutin' and some wanting to see a fight cause they is bored and others tellin' everyone to be quiet so they can get to sleep.

Clifford don't want the cops around, so he runs over and grabs Marquita's arms and bear hugs her back to the room, She's cussin' and bitin' the air and kickin' and everybody's laughin' and shoutin'. Lillin keeps yellin' and callin Marquita names and cuss words and flickin' her off.

Eddie tells AJ to calm his old lady down like Clifford did HIS old lady. AJ tells Lillian to shut up and go inside. But she won't do that. As he moves in closer she gets in his face and pulls her lips back and is sneering at him and tellin' him he ain't MAN enough to make her be quiet. He ain't MAN enough!

He tells her to shut up, everybody out there is yelling for him to quiet her down and keep his kids quiet and she shoves him! What's he gonna do? Everybody;s laughin' at him, and hollering "Whoooooaaaa!" and he is stressed, broke, embarrased and don't know what to do. You know what he did, Tondy.

He drew back his fist and said "Girl shut your mouth and go inside or I'll bust you in the eye." He was bein' restrained, considering. What did Lillian do? She SPIT on him, and and stuck her tongue out. So, AJ busted in the eye just like he said he would! Made a POP sound! Woulda made you sick to hear it. The whole thing would. The fightin' the arguin, the cussin', the hatred. When people is stressed, there is a lot of that kind of thing. I think the devil hangs out around them situations.

Lillian commenced to screaming at the top of her lungs like she was bein' skinned alive and set on fire, and hollerin' for someone to call the cops, and someone did.

OK. The cops get there and most people was back in they's room, ceptin' me, Eddie, AJ, Lillian and folks standin' far enough away but close enough to listen in. AN ambulance comes too, cause the person what called dialed 911. Three cop cars pull in cause the 911 operator heard all the hollerin' and thought it was a riot.

I tell the one cop what happened best I could over Lillian's screamin' how it happened and how she was wrong, AJ was wrong, everybody was wrong. The cops ask AJ, and ask Eddie, and Lillian is just screamin' that she is going to need a makeover. The rescue folks take her in the ambulance to deal with her black eye and to give her time to cool off, which Lillian just don't do, Tondy. They release her after maybe 20 minutes. The kids is screamin bloody murder and everybody's tired an' don't feel like hearin' it.

The cops cuffed AJ and was gonna charge him with assault and battery. They threaten Lillian to shut up or they will lock her up for disturbin' the peace. She spits on AJ there in the cop car.

A lady cop gets Lillian and sits her down on the curb and talks sense to her. If they gotta take AJ to jail, he'll be there til a trial date because he cain't afford to post bail. She asks Lillian if she has anywhere for her and the kids to go and Lillian says no. AJ is all they got for real money. The lady cop asks about Eddie who's been keepin' quiet. He says he don't care, he can sleep on the streets. He ain't wanna live there in the first place. he was just helpin' AJ out.

The cops know that Lillian'll drop charges. They know she is a big mouth trouble maker an' they have also seen her drunk which is worse. She drinks Peach Shnapps and acts like a alligator with a big mouth when she is drink. They know those kids ain't gonna be easy to place in foster care, not around here. They know that if AJ is locked up for more than the weekend he's gonna lose his job and then the whole bunch of them'll be homeless.

So these cops gotta be cops an' they gotta be human, too. They send the ambulance back, and the other cop pulls out leavin' the lady cop and the cop with AJ cuffed in the back of the car. He gives AJ a talk about bein' calm, walkin' away and smokin' a cigarette when Lillian's mouthin' off and the lady cop talks to Lillian about how it's hard for a man to feel like he cain't please his old lady and that he ain't makin' enough money to treat her or the kids good enough. She tells Lillian to lighten up and asks if she can go say she loves AJ and that he can come in and they won't bring it up no more.

The lady cop walks over to the car where AJ is, and tells him she loves him and to come on back in. AJ now ain't got so much drenalin in his blood and he is just tired an' wants to go to bed so he tells the cop he'll be alright. The cop uncuffs him and tells them both to go get some sleep and be good to each other.

Them cops was good human beings, Tondy. They know their people and they know the pressures on poor folk and they know that sometimes people ain't really bad, they just get pushed to the limit and cain't take no more. The cops give Lillian, AJ and Eddie their cards and give me one, too, in case anything starts up again. They tell Lillian that they can lock her up if she acts up again and tell AJ they'll lock him up for aggravated assault if he does it again and everyone goes inside an' tries to sleep. Poor folks have a harder time than folks with money. It's tough out there.

Tondy: That's a pretty good idea, Doc about drinking hot sauce or mustard to get that burn that you like, instead of drinking liquor. I never heard of that. But, you seem to be hitting pretty hard on Alcoholics Anonymous. I understand some of your issues, but a lot of people are being helped by AA. Are you implying that people should not go to AA?

Doc: NO, Tondy! I ain't saying that. But I AM saying it ain't for every body, and some people cain't really go to AA, so if AA is the only way, then how is every one going to get help?

Like a cop. If a cop pulls over someone for drinking, or if the judge assigns someone to go to AA and they go there. Then they see the cop saying, "Hi! I am Sgt. Bill and I am an alcoholic." Do you think the cop can do that when he pulled half those people over for DUI?

Big Dave: Yeh, Tondy. I had to go to A.A., court assigned, which means either I had to go to A.A. or go to jail. I didn't want to go to jail again,so I went to A.A. I wasn't going to quit drinking, I just figured I'd cut back a bit. And, if the cop who pulled me over had been there, and said HE was an alcoholic, too, me and him would have been going round and round out there in the parking lot afterwards. He'd look like Popeye the sailor man when I was done with him.

Doc: That's right, Tondy. A cop would get jumped out in the parking lot, or even if he got up to go use the toilet. Cops aint real popular with people who been pulled over for DUI, and if the cop is an alky, too. Anyway do you know where a cop goes? A cop goes to F.O.P. [in the Sates, the F.O.P. is the Fraternal Order of Police, where police officers go to drink and relax away from the general public. Americans joke about how funny it would be if a Sobriety Check Point would be set up outside an F.O.P lodge! - Tondeleo] The cop goes to the F.O.P. and drinks all evening to try to unwind or forget his problems and then drives home under the influence, knowing nothing will happen to him, unless he is in a wreck but then his fellow cops will cover for him. So, a cop ain't really going to go to AA. There is a lot of cops with drinking problems. I know three or four what drinks. They call it going to Choir Practice.

A judge aint going to go either, for the same reasons. And doctors and school teachers don't want to go, because people need to trust them with their children or with their lives if it is a surgeon and you don't want a drunk teacher teaching your kids or a drunk doctor operating on you. These folks ain't likely to be willing to go to AA and say, "Hi, I am an alcoholic," and I don't blame them.

Then there is folks what work at night when the meetings are. They can't find a meeting. Folks what cain't drive or don't have a car cain't go. People without enough money for gas cain't go. So they is a lot of people with drinking problems what cain't go to AA.

Big Dave: And a lot of women won't go, because of the men. And some of them who want to get help can't go because their old man won't let them - and the old man won't go, or maybe he doesn't have a drinking problem, and figures she started drinking by herself so she can cut back by herself. And there's always the 13 Steppers that make some women not want to go to meetings.

Doc: Tondy, you didn't know what 13 Stepping is, when Big Dave talked about 13 Steppin' that girl. There is 12 steps to recovery in AA, and 13 Steppin' is when you find someone of the opposite sex, unless you are funny, then it is the same sex, and you start pickin' up on them to help them get "cured" quicker.

It is pretty easy to be 13 Stepped in AA because your self esteem is in the toilet, and it really helps you to want to come back to the meeting if someone is flirting with you, or thinks you're a catch. But after a while, if you're just there to get sober, you get tired of all the screw ups trying to hit on you.

Ain't no decent woman with a drinkin' problem wants to keep havin' unemployed rednecks trying to pick up on 'em. Hey, I faced that, ["Yeh, Doc, unemployed rednecks kept hittin' on you!" Big Dave interrupts] I mean, women flirtin' with me an' wantin' to come home with me, and I am not a good lookin' man or a rich one. But I am nice to most everybody, I usually have a decent truck and I play music, so that counted for something. Some people quit goin' to meetin's because of the 13 Steppers what goes to AA.

That is all I meant. What can a person do if they cain't go to AA? First, find some good people to hang around with. Stay away from the bars and the people you used to drink with. I say, "If you ain't gonna straighten up with me, I ain't gonna go to hell with you." If they cain't handle that, then they have to go. You flush that toilet and move on.

Number two is where do you find good people? For me, it was finding a little church where the people was real and serious about helping people. It weren't no big and uppity church what don't believe nothing. It was a Bible believing Church, one where Marilyn was going because the lady down the road went there and took Marilyn to church with her. Sometimes I drove her there myself and sat out in the parking lot in my truck. One night, I was waitin' out in my truck and one of the men came out and invited me in and he sat with me. That meant a lot.

The preacher was a working man and he preached his heart out and he preached from one end of the Bible to the other. I mean he covered more ground than a Weight Watcher's picnic! At the end he gave an altar call and I went up front and got on my knees and asked the Lord into my heart.

Big Dave: I done that once, too, but not at a church. I was in jail in Orangeburg, [South Carolina] for driving on suspended, no insurance, runnin' a red light and CDS with intent. I told the cop it was for personal use, but, that doesn't count. Anyway, I asked the Lord for help and He helped me. But I am not much of a church goer.

Doc: I ain't a choirboy, neither, but it's good to have some good people pullin' for you. Here is how you can find a good church. Look in the parking lot. Watch the people. If they are looking too snooty or it is nothing but big fancy cars, you might not feel too welcome.

If it looks like regular ordinary working people you might want to go in. Then inside, if the people sing out real loud, not self conscious, and the music is good, not funeral music, it is probably a good one, because the Lord will be there. In a good church, the preacher will preach from the Bible and will apply it to every day life so you can understand it, and the people will say "Amen, or "That's Right" or things like that, because they have experienced what he is talking about. It lets you know that they are free to be themselves. At the end, in a good church there will be an altar call or a chance to ask the Lord into your life.

If it ain't got that, it probably aint gonna be strong enough to keep your interest or change your life very much. That's my opinion. When I am traveling, I try to find a Pentecostal church. Good music, good preaching and full of flavor. Pentecostal churches are like what boogie woogie is to music.

Going to a lively church will help you find forgiveness and strength to overcome alcohol or anything else you are battling.

Then there is thinking different than you did before. You can't think good things about getting drunk and be able to stay sober. You gotta see drinking as your enemy and being sober as your friend. I used to think I had wasted a Friday night if I didn't get drunk. Then, I changed my thoughts to thinking I had wasted a Friday night if I DID get drunk. Every Friday night I could stay sober was a victory and I hated losing.

You got to get rid of that "stinkin thinkin." That's an AA saying and it is true. So is this one; "you need to get a check up from the neck up."

I had to learn to stay sober because we are like 20 miles from the nearest AA meeting that I liked and I did not always have the gas to go there or had to play somewhere. Now, I try to not play in bars, and I never, ever take Marilyn to a bar. Never. Nothing good would come of it. She is a good girl and good looking, and in a bar that means that someone would put his hands on her and then old Doc would think he was a cop and it would be a replay of the old days which aint nobody wants.

Stay outta drinking places if you are going to stay sober! If we play a festival or a party or BBQ, then we bring some soda's and tell people we aint havin' nothing stronger than that and they is usually ok with that. Even the biker parties we have played at. They understand and respect that and is always respectful of Marilyn.

Big Dave: Yeh, she's a nice girl and don't need to be dangled in front of idiots. It's just asking for trouble. Doc's right about that, Tondy. Don't go into a bar with anything or anyone who could get you drinkin' too much or fightin' and don't carry much money, maybe a $20, and don't carry any real weapons. Doc is a champ on improvised ones, though.

Tondeleo: In the last post Doc gave some family history of his relatives in Scott County, VA, and the alcoholism that he says is in the blood. He talked about his first tastes of whiskey and how it affected him, and how he began to quit drinking. Here is more from that same interview. His friend Big Dave had dropped over by this time, so he added a few comments.

Doc: Ok, Tondy. Here is something what I learnt about alcohol what is important. First, it's got nothing to do with how much you drink whether you is an alcoholic or not. It's either in your blood or not. Like for me, the first drink of whiskey was like the heavens opening up. It was like I had tasted it before and had been lookin for that taste all my life, even though I was only 12 or 13. I took that drink of Jack Daniels and on the inside I thought, "YEAH! This is it! It's what I been lookin for!" It didn't taste like something new. No, it was like meeting a old friend. That is a danger sign, I learnt later.

Big Dave: It wasn't like that for me, was it Doc? I didn't like the taste, but I wanted to get drunk. And it didn't take too much to do it. I could get drunk on three beers back then. But you always held your liquor pretty well.

Doc. Right. I could hold my liquor better than any of you all. I drank maybe half of that fifth an really didn't feel anything but more alive. Ready to go. Ready to get in a fight or go steal something, but I did not feel tipsy or any of that. No, and that is a bad sign too. If you get drunk on two beers, you aint no alcoholic. You may be a problem drinker later on, but you aint no alcoholic. Big Dave would drink till he was stupid and it weren't that far of a trip for him. Maybe a sixpack.

A alcoholic gots it in the blood, like the tolerance is already there. They all said of me that I could hold my liquor and I could. I was the one they got to drive when every one else was passin' out and pukin. But not me. That is a bad sign too, Tondy.

Big Dave: Doc, you used to get drunk and wake up with cuts and bruises and have no idea what happened! You'd try to right some wrongs and end up getting thrown out or locked up for the night. That was regular for you, when we were in our 20's. Tell Tondelo about it.

Doc: Big Dave is right. That's another one what I had. That is blackouts. Like it don't mean faintin.' It means drinkin' a bit and then not knowing what you done while you was drinkin. I done that a fair bit. One time, I had a bottle of Scotch an the neighbor's boy, this was down Mount Olive, North Carolina, came over. I had taken a few drinks, and when he came over I asked him to take me for a ride. I remember that much.

The next day he called me an' said "Doc, I aint comin' over no more. You scared me. It was like it wasn't you, but someone else inside of you."

I didn't believe him. He said I had gotten my snub nose 357 [a powerful pistol with a 2" barrel - Tondeleo] and had stuck it in my waistband and had told him to take me around to the different bars in Goldsboro because I wanted to find someone who was picking on someone else or a man hitting a woman and I was gonna teach him a lesson. I didn't remember ANY of that, Tondy. Then he said for me to look at my bottle of Scotch. I did, and guess what - it was empty!

I didn't know anything about what he said, but I knew it was full at the beginning of the evening and now it was empty. That's called a blackout. If you are having blackouts you are a alcoholic. You need to find a reason strong enough to get you to quit drinking right now.

Big Dave: Tell 'em about AA. I took you to the one at Sacred Heart over in La Plata. You went there and to one in Indian Head for a while. You liked that at first.

Doc: I told Tondy about that before you got here. Like I said, I went to AA to get help, and it did help some, but it aint enough. Or aint enough for me. First, cause they said that you should come to AA on any night what you usually would drink. I never drank on any kind of schedule. Mostly when I played music, but if I showed up at AA instead of at my gig, I would have been homeless!

My second problem was that not everyone who drinks a lot is a alcoholic. Some is just problem drinkers. Big Dave would be in that group. It's not in their blood, it is just a bad habit or a social thing for them. And guess what happens? Now they is problem AA'ers! They used to drink every night and neglect their family and now they is at AA every night and neglecting their family!That ain't no good.

Big Dave: What got you to quit? I remember you told me at the time, but I didn't really care because I was thirteen stepping that girl [apparently an insider joke, because of the way Big Dave and Doc laughed and punched each other's shoulders - Tondeleo] - what was her name? - back then and I didn't care why you quit. It was just less competition for me! I was glad you dropped out!!!

Doc: It was having to introduce yourself as an alcoholic and telling yourself that every day. I did not need to hear that, especially coming out of my own mouth. "My name is Doc and I am an alcoholic." "Hi Doc."Just Doc with no last name. Aint nobody s'posed to use last names there. That is a good thing to say when you is still gettin' drunk and are lying to yourself about it. Like they say, If you have problems because of alcohol, you have an alcohol problem." That is true enough.

But I did not want to keep confessing that about myself, no sir. If I did, I woulda kept acting like that! So I began to confess "I am Doc Stevens. I got a last name. I live sober and right. I am a man and I take 'sponsibilty for my choices. I choose to live right and be a zample to every one I meet not just today but every day. And I need the Lord's help to do that."

That worked for me and still does.

Here is my last gripe with AA. They say to pray to the God of your understanding. Well, the God of MY understanding is what got me in trouble! My understanding aint no God. In jail they said that anything could be our God - a light bulb or even our locker! I would have to be double drunk and on the floor to believe that! No, it is not the God of my understanding, but God as I understand Him.

See, Tondy, I got my grandaddy's old AA books, and the new ones has changed it. They prayed to the real God, and so do I. He can help a man and bring him up from the gutter. But a light bulb or a locker cant do nothing for no one. I asked the Lord up above for help and He helped me. He saved my soul and saved my life.

But they did not want to hear the easy answer because it might offend someone if you say "I asked the Lord into my heart and he gave me a new heart and a new mind and a new life and reason for living. You might want to do it too." You can curse in them meetings and say the Lord's name in vain but you aint supposed to say it like He is the answer, because if you do, you ain't cool in their world. Only if you get up there and cuss as much as you can when telling what a bad guy you used to be.

Well, I am ashamed of what I used to be. I am ashamed of my days of darkness and all that I did so I didn't want to tell them all the dirt. I went to AA for a while and it did help some people. Just not for me.

Do I still get tempted? Well YEAH! But I aint tempted to going back into my darkness and hurtin' my loved ones. I drink other things. Sometimes a bottle of hot sauce will do the trick. I like to drink Jamaican Pepper Sauce.

One thing I drink now, and this aint no lie, I drink mustard. I drink it right out of the bottle like I used to do with whiskey. I like hot mustard, not that yellow French's mustard. My mustard of choice right now is called Chipotle Mustard. Silver Spring Chipotle Mustard. Marilyn found it up there at the Safeway in Bryans Road. It comes in a squeeze bottle. I carry one of those with me and I squirt it into my mouth when I want that burn that I like so well. I might drink one of them little bottles in a evening if we are out playing music. And I pray to the Lord for strength and He helps me.

Put this on the blob, Tondy. It might help someone to beat whiskey so it don't wreck their life.

Tondeleo: You can download the A.A. "Big Book" on the Internet at www.aa.org/bigbookonline A.A. has helped members of Doc's family and members of my family and several of my mates to get help. Doc's opinion above is just his experience and is strictly his opinion.

Tondeleo: Doc used to be quite a hard drinker. He says it runs in the family and that for as long as he has ever been able to find out, hard drinking and fighting and cheating goes way back in the family tree on both sides.

Doc stopped drinking around about the time he took the job of raising Marilyn, his niece when she was nearly eleven years old. What does he do now to deal with his desire for alcohol? Here is what he says, as best as I can understand him.

Doc: Yeah alcohol pretty much runs in the blood in our family. Mama was a Falin from down Scott County Virginia. On Clinch Mountain. In Clinchport. Some in Gate City where my great grandaddy ended up. His name was Andrew Jackson Falin. He was wrote about in that book Trail of the Lonesome Pine what became a movie in the 1930's. He was the one in that book called Jack. He was a black Falin. Had black hair. Red Falins has red hair.

We got Falins, and Hortons, my great grandma was a Horton, kin to Johhny Horton the singer who was also a racist and I aint, That is my mom's dad's side. My grandmother on her mom's side was a Taylor from Kingsport, Tennessee and also was Carters, of the Carter family which sing and where June Carter is of.

My grandaddy was Gideon Falin and he was a drunk like his daddy, but he done better for himself and moved outta there and wouldn't never let any of us meet our people down there because he said they wouldn't do us any good. Later I learnt he was scared we would start acting like he did and his kin when he lived down there. I heard the stories, and he wrote down a lot of them in his diary and he wrote down his life story when he got older. He was good at that, which is odd for a Falin or any other mountain man. He even wrote some when he was drinking and it sounded like me when I was drinking, when I read it after he died.

Alcohol done our family no good. Even getting out of Clinchport, my Grandaddy went back to drinking and lost everything, then sobered up and got on his feet. He worked at Bethlehem Steel and coulda been a Vice President when he was 39, but got drunk and didn't show up for the interview! Then he got drunk because he was so mad at himself for doing that. He stayed drunk most of the time from 39 years old to 43 years old. He got canned and then a friend in the Masons got him a job at Western Electric, but he would have no retirement because the job there was a favor. He only went back to drinking one more time and was hospitalized. But then he never went back to it. So that was good. His two brothers both was musicians like he was, but died broke and alone and drunk as I heard it. One of them named Garland Falin died in Coos Bay, Oregon in a hotel room with nothing to show of his life.

They was all talented but alcohol did them in. As for me, the first time tasted alcohol at 12 maybe 13. It was beer and I didn't care for it. Drank some wine and it was ok. But then one of my friends gave me some Jack Daniels and BLAM! It was like the heavens opened, Tondy! It tasted familiar, but I aint never had it afore!

I liked how it burned going down. I started drinking it right from the bottle and wouldn't let any of my friends have any of it. They didn't much like it cause it was too strong. I drank about half the bottle, I think. We had that liquor hid out in the woods because one of my friends stole it from a house where he played music for a party. He stole it and hid it out there.

Well, the next day I got wanting more so I went out there by myself and drank as much of that Jack Daniels as I felt like and it was like that was what I was born to do with my life! I tried some Southern Comfort and J&B and some Johnny Walker Red and I liked 'em all!

So I was just born with it in my blood. I wished there was whiskey coming out of our spigot and not water. Not to get drunk so much but to be able to taste that burn.

Well, long story short, it didn't do me no good either. When I drink whiskey, I become a defender of the weak, if you know what I mean. I hate bullies when I am sober, but if I have had a few, and then I see a man being mean to a woman or picking on a little guy, I am right there in the middle of it, which aint too smart. I aint no cop, but I think I am when I have had a few.I think I am a big cop!

I aint the best fighter in the world and only weigh 190 to 205 depending on how much I been eating, but after two or three shots, I am pretty mean, and fast and don't put up with no BS if you know what I mean.

When the chance came to take care of Marilyn, I had to cut all that mess out. Now I tried that AA which is Alcoholics Anonymous. It was ok, but I got tired of saying "My name is Doc and I am an alcoholic" and then having them all say, "Hi Doc." We would then try to all top each other's stories about what a jerk we was when we was drunk.Every meeting, you have someone stand up and tell how drunk he used to get, or she if it was a woman, and after while you get to enjoy telling the story and you don't want to be boring so you add to it to get the laughs.

But after a while I had a revelation. How am I ever gonna get better if I keep announcing to myself and to other people that I am an Alcoholic? You can hypnotize yourself to become whatever you say you is and you will be that.

I said in one meeting, "I am Doc Stevens. I used to be a Alcoholic, but the Lord done delivered me from it, and now it is in my past, under the blood of Jesus and you can do that too, if you want. It aint me what done it but Him. The power came from Him so the glory will go to Him."

Well, they weren't ready for THAT one! No sir! I coulda said anything I wanted but that was too strong a drink for them! My sponsor told me that it was very good that I found help in religion, but that I needed to just cooperate and fit in. Cooperating and fitting in is what got me into trouble in the first place, so I decided I was not going to do that. I only went a few more times after that. But I am still sober.