Doc Stevens

Tondeleo: I've been real fortunate getting Doc and Marilyn to agree to talk about their Hawaii trip that their friend Billy footed the bill for. They were embarrassed about going to Hawaii because neither of them knew where it was before going, while they were there or indeed to this day. They might mention that they "went down to Hawaii," but they don't talk about it. 

They loved it, and Marilyn is certain that Hawaii is "like Heaven only shorter." Their friends who do know about Hawaii don't believe Doc and Marilyn really went there. The others of their friends, which is most of them, may have heard of Hawaii but don't believe that Doc and Marilyn could have possibly been there.  And, if they DID, how did they get back?


 Doc: One thing we liked about Hawaii was the people. Not the tourists but the locals. You can spot the tourists - their clothes and cameras around their necks and they're spending money everywhere. Loaded down with shopping bags.

Not just American tourists, Tondy, but they had tourists of every color and country under the sun! I didn't know there was that many kinds of people anywhere exceptin' Washington, DC.

Marilyn: Yeah, it was all kinds of tourists. We didn't have any cameras or any money! Billy paid for our tickets and motel but we had to come up with all our own money for food and stuff. We had to sing and pass the hat and eat the cheapest food we could find - people didn't think we were tourists. I think they thought we were just homeless. Like tourists that got there and ran out of money.  But not drug addicts. We're not skinny enough for people to think that. There's a lot of homeless people in Hawaii.

Doc: I was glad I brought my acoustic guitar. The locals was real nice to us and helped us out with whatever we needed. They didn't care that we were Gringos. Sometimes they would come and sing with us or play their itty bitty guitars. They would tell us places that was best for singing and passing the hat. They was real good to us like that. Plus, they was a lot of fun.

Their dogs was real nice, too, Tondy. But dogs are pretty much the same everywhere. It made us miss our dog, Dale Junior what we had to put down last Summer cause he got blind and deaf and couldn't walk anymore. He was 16. That's pretty old for a American Bulldog.

Marilyn: This one gal, Louisa, she took us under her wing and invited us to her family reunion party and helped us out almost every day. Their party was like three days, Tondy!

Doc: And boy could she sing! She had a set of lungs on her, I tell you! And she was real good to Marilyn. Helped Marilyn meet people and chased away the boys what was comin' on to her. 

Marilyn: We sang and we laughed and sang and ate and sang and laughed some more! Then we ate some more and sang some more and laughed some more... then we ate some more, and everybody fell asleep and the next day we did the same thing! Ate and sang and laughed and ate and sang and laughed... we had FUN!

Doc: A lot of singin' laughin' and eatin' went on, all right!

Tondeleo: During the course of our discussion on how the rich people expect the poor to support them – and how for some reason many poor feel compelled to defend the rich, the topic turned to the TV preachers. I asked Doc if he ever sent money to the TV preachers. I know he and Marilyn and some of their friends go to church. I have never seen them watching any TV preachers, but I wondered if they sent money to them. Many of the American TV preachers promise that God will make you wealthy if you send them money. And many of the poorest of people do send them money. I have read that the richest ministries in America are supported primarily by the poor and the elderly. People who can least afford it. That is where this conversation begins.

“So, Doc, why is it that poor people feel compelled to send money to these obviously rich TV preachers? These TV preachers, both men and women boast about their wealth and their luxury cars, and their mansions and private jet planes. Yet, these things and that lifestyle came from the gifts of their donors, many of whom are poor and elderly. How is it that people give to them? I don’t get it.”

Doc: You’re right. You’re right, Tondy. But you gotta understand this. You ain’t never been poor. I ain’t never been nothing but poor.

When you’re poor, you know you can’t do nothing to ever have much money. Ain’t nobody want to pay a poor person more than minimum wage. They know you’re hurtin’ and they know you’ll take it. And they know that ain’t nobody else gonna pay you more than that, so you GOTTA take it.
So all you got left is two things.Either play the numbers [buy lottery tickets] or give to the TV preachers and hope that they is tellin’ the truth, that God’ll give you a hundredfold return. That means if I send them ten dollars, somehow God will let me get a hold of… of… of… uh.. ummm…

Doc reaches for a pencil and an envelope to add it up… 10 plus 10 plus 10 plus 10. I don’t want to wait for him to add it a hundred times.

Tondeleo: A hundredfold means you would get a hundred times ten dollars, Doc. That would be a thousand dollars for every ten dollars you send in.

Doc: Yeah, I was gettin' there. The TV preacher tell you the truth in one part. That is that if you plant a seed into good soil, it will grow and multiply. That is true, anyone knows that. If I plant a tomato seed and it grows, it will produce more than a hundred seeds from the tomatoes what grows on the plant. Maybe a thousand seeds. No argument there. That is the truth and you don’t even need to believe the Bible to know that.

But then they tell you that THEY is the good soil! That is like a rat tellin’ you if you plant your corn in good soil you will be eatin’ corn on the cob an’ then have a lot of seed left to plant more corn, which is true, but then that rat tells you that HE is the good soil! 

If you give your corn to the rat, Tondy, it ain’t gonna multiply! You ain’t gonna have corn on the cob! All you gonna have is rat turds.That rat so’t want you to plant your seed in good soil, he wants you to plant it in him so he can eat it! If you give your seed to the rat, you ain’t getting’ nothin’ back but turds.

God don’t nowhere in the Bible tell you to give your money to rich folks. He says to give your money to poor folks and needy folks. But not all needy folks is good soil neither. He ain’t tell you to give your money to crackheads and drug dealers an’ folks that is doin’ wrong or folks what hates God.

He says to give to the poor folks what you know. An’ widows an’ orphans – what is kids who ain’t got they parent lookin’ out for ‘em. Their parent may be alive but maybe their daddy is in jail and they mama is a crack head. Somebody got to look out for those kids.

He tells you to look out for the immigrants too, Tondy. He says help them. He don’t tell you nowhere to hate the immigrants.  

My preacher down at the church says if you give to help a person who is needy and can’t help themselves, the Lord will bless you for it. The good book says that. He says that the person what gives to the poor lends to the Lord and the Lord will repay you. You got to give to poor folks and help out those what needs helping. I marked it in my Bible right here so I could find it again. Got a piece of paper stuck in it. 

[Reading slowly and deliberately] “He that has pity upon the poor lends unto the LORD; and that which he has given the Lord will pay him back.” That is real clear. The good Lord wants us to give to the poor, not to the rich. And that is when God will bless you for helpin’ someone. When you give to the poor.

Tondeleo: And where is that in the Bible, Doc?

Doc: Let me find it again… that’s Proverbs chapter 19 and verse 17.
But God don’t bless you for givin’ to the rich. He said and I got it marked in my Bible… it’s right here. It is Proverbs chapter 22 and verse16. “He that oppresses the poor to increase his riches, and he that gives to the rich, shall certainly come to poverty.”
 
Now guess who that first part is about? It is about the rich people, including those rich preachers who take money from the poor so they can get richer. Those TV preachers tell the poor people that they will get a hundredfold return if the poor people send money to them.
But God says if you give to rich people, whether it is rich preachers or rich politicians, you’re definitely gonna stay poor.
 
You can’t be on TV every day unless you’re rich. It costs millions! And you can’t get to be a politician on any kind of level unless you’re rich. All them people runnin’ for President is multi-millionaires. Every one of them. And God says if you give them money, you’ll end up goin’ broke. 

My mama use to send 10 dollars a month to her favorite tv preacher for more than 30 years. And she ain’t never got not even a one fold return, let alone no hundredfold return. That’s because she was givin’ to the rich. You ain’t supposed to give to the rich. You’re supposed to give to the poor. That’s what Jesus said. She shoulda been givin’ that money to help ohter folks that was havin’ money problems. 

These TV preachers mostly is livin’ like kings on the money what poor folks send in. They is livin’ in mansions and flyin’ around in their jet airplanes. They ain’t givin’ money, they are spendin’ money on themselves. When is the last time you heard of a rich preacher or politician givin’ to the poor? I mean giving their own money to help the poor? It ain’t happenin’ Tondy.
If you’re givin’ to them, you’re not plantin’ your seed in good soil, you’re feedin’ a rat or a pig. If you feed your seed to a pig, you don’t get a return. Well, what you DO get ain’t nothin’ you want to eat. 

An’ Jesus said don’t cast your pearls before swine. That means don’t give your money to pigs. He said they will turn on you trample you. After you helped them, they will not help you, and you will end up worse than if you gave them nothing. 

If you read that Bible, it’ll keep you from sendin’ the money to the rich an’ it will get you to helpin’ the poor, no matter where they come from. That’s what me an’ Marilyn tries to do. Help people.

Tondeleo: Whilst talking with Doc about the Occupy movement and the world’s economy, we got on the topic of the poor and how they for some reason feel compelled to support the rich, and those who are making their millions off of poor people.

I was surprised at some of Doc’s opinions on this. Even after knowing him for years I tend to think of him and his friends as socially naïve and uninformed. And, even though they do tend to be uninformed and naïve in some things, they still are able to come up with some basic wisdom and clear thinking on a lot of the current issues.

Here are some excerpts from one of our conversations about this:

Doc: OK, Tondy, here is what don’t make sense first of all. You got these rich politicians and the rich bankers and heads of the big companies who is all billionaires, an’ they also own the newspapers and TV and radio. They ain’t want to be taxed like the rest of us. So they tell us how we are communists if we ain’t want to pay more taxes than them. 

Well, guess what? I ain’t no communist. But if I gotta pay 30% taxes on what little money I make, and then try to live on the rest, why shouldn’t  a billionaire pay the same thing and live on the rest? This is America where we is all supposed to be equal. Aint supposed to be nobody better than the rest.

And then you got all these old people an’ poor people what believes everything these billionaire vultures tells ‘em and they start sayin’ the same thing! That s jacked up, Tondy! Jacked up.
Like a hound dog goin’ around supportin’ blood ticks. Even my dog, Dale Junior will pull off a tick if he can. He is smarter than a lot of these people what is livin’ on social security and sayin’ we need to give the billionaires a tax break.

Them billionaires and their litle brothers the millionaires has been blessed. More blessed than we’ll ever be. They ought to count it as part of their thanks to the good Lord what blessed them to give to the poor and the old folks. I mean ain’t that why the Lord blesses a person for? So that person can help those in need? God ain’t blessed no one so they can hoard it for themselves. I ain’t that smart, but I can read the Bible.

I know that the Lord’ll bless them even more if they help the poor folks and the immigrants. But these folks hate immigrants! That ain’t right neither, Tondy. The Lord tells you to look out for the strangers and the aliens – not space aliens from outer space, but aliens and strangers is what they was called in Bible days. The Lord says be good to them an’ he will bless you. 

But these folks says you should hate the aliens and immigrants an’ send them back where they came from. Well guess what? Most of these folks what is sayin’ it ain’t exactly American Indians! They all  came from immigrants themselves! Maybe they need to go back to where they came from too! 

What is it all about? I can tell you. It is about the love of money and greed, like the Lord said. He said it was really bad when you love money more than you love people.

Tondeleo: Back in the Spring, when I was spending a Saturday with Doc and Marilyn, we went to Alexandria, VA, just outside of Washington, DC, where they did some street performing in the late afternoon. They like to play in Old Town Alexandria because there is a lot of foot traffic, the crowds are appreciative and the police are friendly, and will let them at least finish whatever song they are singing before telling them to move on.

We went from Old Town to Crystal City, which is between Alexandria and Arlington. They set up at the bank which had closed for the day, on the corner of South Eads Street and 23rd Street. As usual, they drew a crowd, and some of the people were dancing and clapping. Doc and Marilyn were in their usual upbeat and high energy mode and people were tossing money into the collection box.

When Doc looked up the block and saw a Police car making its rounds, he announced that they were going to have an intermission, and would be playing again after a break.

As the crowd of locals and tourists dispersed, there was a young Sikh man who stayed behind, probably out of curiosity, having seen maybe his first live, genuine American redneck. He approached Doc and the two began talking. I could tell initially that Doc was particularly wary of the Sikh, and I decided to get Marilyn and take a walking tour of 23rd Street, to look at the maybe 20 small restaurants that line it on either side. I could not bear to think how the conversation between the turbaned Sikh and Doc might go.

After Marilyn and I came back, maybe twenty minutes later, Doc was standing at the bank waiting with his guitar and mini amp. He looked like he had just had an epiphany. I figured this would be a good one, so I pulled out my recording stick. Here is how it went:

Doc: Hey, Tondy and Marilyn - Didja see the towelhead I was talking to? That dude with the turbine ["turban"] on his head?

We noted that we had, so Doc continued:

Doc: When I first saw him hangin' around after we sang, I figured he was a terrorist, one of them Towel a Bands [Doc's term for Taliband]. I seen 'em on TV but ain't never seen one close up. I was ready for him if he tried anything.

But guess what Marilyn? He weren't no Towel a Band. I asked him and he said he weren't and then I asked him how I knew that he weren't one and was just lyin' about it. He told me he weren't a Towel a Band and he came from the wrong part of the world to be one. He told me he weren't no Al Qaida neither, in case I was wondering.

I hadn't thought of Al Qaeda whatever they are, but I told him that if he weren't no Towel a Band, then he must be a fortune teller.

Tondy, he said he ain't no fortune teller, neither. I asked, what ARE you then, and he said he was a Seek [Sikh]. I asked what he was seekin' and he said it was his religion. I let him know that if he would seek the good Lord, he would find him. No doubt.

Marilyn: That's GOOD, Uncle Doc! You was WITnessin' to him!

["Witnessing" means to tell someone about being "born again" in America - Tondeleo]

Doc: Well, I might've been. But I weren't tryin.' That Seek said he liked our music and that is why he stayed! He said he loves American blues and roots music. They ain't got it in his country, but he loves it and would like to learn how to sing it! In fact, he said his NAME is SING! ["Singh," a common name among Sikhs - Tondeleo].

Once I found out he weren't no terrorist, I closed up the knife in my pocket, and told him I was ready for him but now I wasn't gonna cut him. He said in his religion, Tondy, they GOT to carry a knife! GOT to! It's part of their religion! I told him it's a part of my religion, too.

He was a good old boy, Tondy. Just regular like me an' Marilyn. He said whenever I see someone with one of those turbines on his head, to know that it ain't no terrorist, just a Seek. Ain't that somethin? Seeks ain't nothin' like terrorists, Tondy. They are more like us. But they is still seekin. An' I got a picture of him with Marilyn's phone.

Tondeleo: In the light of the worldwide economic crisis, I thought it would be particularly fitting to post this conversation I had with Doc a few months ago about greed, money, and contentment.

As you know, Doc doesn't have a lot of money or material possessions, but he is content, and works hard enough at enough things that he and Marilyn and the dogs eat well.

I was asking Doc about the why America seems to have sudden;y plummeted from it's position as world leader to a confused giant that has somehow lost its way. I thought his answers were worth posting.

Doc: Tondy, I'll tell ya. It's about payin' the cost to be the boss. You gotta pay the cost to be the boss. America used to be a country full of immigrants. In my granddaddy's day, they al was pretty much immigrants, where he lived. In they's houses, they spoke the language of where they'd come from. At home, you might hear Italian, Pollock, German or whatever. They was all first generation immigrants.

But they's kids was American and called themselves American. Didn't call themselves half American like they do now. You can take some office boy what ain't never been outta the US and his parents aint, and his grandparents aint, and he calls hisself a Irish-American. No, he's American.

Same with black folks. They ain't all African American. Some is from the islands, like Jamaica or Saint Lucy. They is also white folks what is African, 'cause I met a white woman from South Africa, and she said she was African, and I said, Whoa sister! You are the wrong color but she said she was South African.

But what made America great, Tondy, was them first generation folks. Immigrants. They left everything they had in they's own countries and spent all they had to come here, to start a new life. They paid the price.

But that second and third generation, they is the ones that lose that sense of bein' hungry and havin' a dream to pull them along. A ot of them is spoilt, and ain't got no work ethic. Some of 'em won't even work. But they's parents and grandparents worked day and night and sacrificed so they could live the American dream. But the grandkids just ain't got that drive.

They ain't got the drive, they ain't got the work ethic, but they want everything that money can buy and they want it NOW. N-O-W, now. And if they cain't get it, they feel like they is being held back and mistreated. That is what has happened to America, Tondy.

These folks is so indulged, they feel empty if there is something out there that they haven't been able to buy yet, or if they find out about some place they ain't been to yet, and then they feel like they is bein' held back. They gotta have EVERYTHING they want and not ever be told the word, "no."

That's why most people in America is so in debt. They want everything right now, when they aint got the money for it, so they makes payments, and they spend more than they make every month.

Like most people gots credit cards. And they can't pay it off every month because they spend more than they make. They can't afford how they is livin.' And they think they gotta have all that stuff. They don't.

That is the kind of people what got in control of our country, and the banks and car companies, and they think they have to have everything and have it all right now. And they don't care who they hurt or have to rip off, and that is how they grabbed millions of dollars for themselves and ran the common people into the ground.

As for me, I think you are rich if you don't need anything. Like I seen a rich dude at the mall up to Waldorf. Me an' him got to talkin' an' I asked him what he was buyin.' He coulda bought half that mall if he wanted. Know what he said? He said he wasn't buyin' nothin. He already had enough of everything. Now, that is rich.

Bein' rich is about having enough that you don't need everything. I got a pickup truck an' my old panel truck. I ain't need a new car. Ain't even tempted. I like where I live, and I like my guitars and my tools and my dogs and my friends and Marilyn. I ain't needin' anyting else. So I am a rich man, Tondy. I ain't needin' nothin'.

Here's a story that my cousin down in Gate City told me.

A rich man dies and wants to take along at least one bag of money with him. It's all he has. He ain't never been very religious - ain't never helped nobody neither. He just made money all his life. The angel of death, he didn't care if the man brought along a bag of money.

So the man stands before the throne of God, up in Heaven, and Jesus asks, What's that? The man said, "it's my money, it's all I have."

Jesus says, to the angel: "Let me see it, bring it here." Jesus takes that bag of money and tries to sit on it. He says, This is too lumpy to be a good cushion."

So Jesus pulls it out from under himself and tosses it on the floor and puts his feet on it. He says, "It's too small to be a good footstool… and it never gets cold up here, so it is no good to burn it for heat."

So he tells the angel to give it back to the man and tell him he to carry it around. It's all he's got.

Tondy, that's the way a lot of people is. That story ain't in the BIble, but it's a good one.

Tondeleo: One thing that I notice about Doc and his friends, as well as other rural poor people in the US is that many of them have a deep sense of religion that I don't find in the UK. It seems to be in their blood, even if it is not readily apparent by their day to day behaviour.

Doc was talking about being in South Carolina, and how he ended up for a while staying in a Christian Mission. In the UK, we have dosshouses, or what are called Homeless Shelters in the US, but we do not have as many Christian based ones as the US does. Also, in the US, it seems like the poorer the neighbourhood, the more tattoo parlours, bowling allies and Pentecostal missions there are. It is especially true in the cities.

Pentecostalism in America is readily available, as it has gotten to be in the UK. I have noticed that in Africa and India, Pentecostalism is also quite common, even though the majority of the population may be clueless as to its existence and its substance.

I presented Doc with some questions about Pentecostalism and its predominance among particularly the poor in America, and here are some of his answers, the best I could understand them.

Doc: What is Pentecostalism? I ain't really know that one, Tondy. I ain't too big on the "ism's." Now, I been to some Pentecostal churches and have stayed in Pentecostal missions. Stayed in one in Orangeburg, matter of fact. Pentecostals is the ones what has more heart than most the other ones. Pentecostals care about poor folks an' they ain't care if you done time or been in trouble. They ain't so uppity.

Tondeleo: So, Doc, how would I recognise a Pentecostal person?

Doc: They aint nothin' to recognise, Tondy! They just look regular like me. You know Slick Ballinger [a talented young Blues guitarist and singer from North Carolina that Doc introduced me to two years ago - Tondeleo], he's a Pentecostal. Goes to a Oneness church. Apostolic. And also, Big Dave, he's a Pentecostal, too, I think. I heard him speak in tongues a long time ago, an' I guess he still does.

Pentecostals look like anyone else. But if you went to church with one, you'd see the difference and you'd hear the difference. Like in a regular church, the singin' is quiet, an' boring. In a Pentecostal church, they sing with all they's hearts! They is singin' to God Hisself and they ain't 'shamed to sing to Him. I tell you, ten Pentecostals'll sing louder than a hundred regular church folks. An' they'd enjoy it more, too.

You clap your hands and stomp your feet to the music. You can dance in a Pentecostal church, too. But not with women. No couples dancin'.

The music's better. Pentecostals put more feelin' in they's playin'. A Pentecostal piano player'll play like Jerry Lee Lewis or Leon Russell or Pinetop Perkins or Katie Webster. Jerry Lee Lewis was brought up Pentecostal. But he backslid. Pentecostals usually aint had no trainin' in music or preachin' an' they cain't read a note of music. They ain't like one of them high falutin' churches what plays by music notes an' sounds like a funeral march.

You clap your hands and stomp your feet to the music. You can dance in a Pentecostal church, too. But not with women. No couples dancin'. You dance by yourself. I done it plenty of times. An' they don't get mad at you for it, if you're dancing for the Lord.

But you ain't s'posed to get in the flesh and be shakin' your rear end or doin' no Michael Jackson moves. That ain't right to do in the house of the Lord. You're s'posed to dance in the spirit, not in the flesh. Matter of fact, dancin' for the Lord is the only dancin' what Pentecostals do. They ain't go to worldly dances.

Tondeleo: You're saying that the music is different, more lively in a Pentecostal church, and that the people can dance to it. Doesn't that seem sacrilegious to you?

Doc: Naw! It ain't sack religious. King David danced for the Lord and I know in the Bible it says somewhere to praise the Lord with dance. I heard a lot of Pentecostal preachers say that one, when some folks was dancin' an' other folks was sittin' there all sour faced an' not praisin' the Lord.

That's another thing, Tondy. The preachin' is different in Pentecostal churches. In a regular church, the preacher is usually a soft talkin' sissy whose afraid to hurt anyone's feelin's. He gets up there an' tickles their ears with a bunch of stuff about love and how God is too good to send anyone to hell and all that. He ain't wantin' no one to ever feel bad, ever.

But a Pentecostal preacher ain't like that! No Sir. First, they ain't usually sissies. Lots of 'em grew up poor. Most of them done some pretty wild livin' in their day before they was preachers. They been there and done that. They can tell you about their days of drinkin', druggin', skirt chasin' and all that. But then they got saved and God called them to preach and most of 'em started right then and there when God called 'em and they let the Holy Ghost teach 'em how to preach.

Some of 'em went to Bible college to get some trainin' and teachin' but it don't make 'em into better preachers. It just gives 'em some book learnin'.

A Pentecostal preacher'll step on your toes, too, Tondy. He'll call a spade a spade an' he don't mince no words. If you're doin' wrong, the Holy Ghost'll tell him and he'll say it right there into the microphone! He ain't scared of nothin' or no one but God. He'll preach and run around, an' unbutton his shirt a little and loosen up his tie when the Holy Ghost comes upon him, and he'll mop his brow with his hanky! He'll jump and shout a little bit, and get the people goin' at it, too! There ain't no sleepin' at a Pentecostal church!

Then, at the end, he'll quiet it on down an' ask you about if you're saved or not. He'll tell you that if you're not, you'll die and go to a devil's hell. But if you'll come to Jesus, you'll be forgiven and get to go to Heaven to be with Jesus, the Angels and all your dead relatives what loved the Lord. It makes you want to go up front. I done it plenty of times, Tondy. Gone up front to get forgiven and to get help from the Lord.

Sometimes other folks'll come up to the altar an' lay hands on you an cry and pray with you. They pray loud, too. Like God is right here in the church, but He might be a little hard of hearing. They'll hug you afterwards and tell you that they felt the Holy Ghost moving on you when they was prayin'. You feel all clean and sorta lightheaded, too. I like Pentecostal churches, I do.

A person might have the devil leave him, and he might get to jumpin' an' shoutin' and cryin' and speakin' in tongues and all the people around'll be clappin' and praisin the Lord too. They ain't nothin' like it Tondy. But don't go if you got a migraine cause they get pretty loud.

One preacher said that earth is the quietest place in the universe! He said in hell they is all shoutin' and cryin' out in pain and in Heaven everyone is shoutin' and praisin the Lord!

Here's something else I like about Pentecostal churches. They ain't like either all white or all black. They usually is mixed. Like I met Ronnie [Perkins] at a Pentecostal church up to Sumter [SC]. I wouldn't have met him in a regular church especially down South Carolina where they is still racist. Down there, pretty much unless they is Pentecostal, the whites ain't gonna worship with black folks. Only the Holy Ghost can overcome racism. It ain't in the heart of man.

What boogie-woogie is to music, Pentecostal is to religion.

OK an' one more thing. Pentecostals'll help you when you is down an' out an' they will pray for you to be delivered if you get into drugs or alcohol or illicit lifestyles. They got love and they cares about people an' they also got more power of the Holy Ghost than regular church folks.

Tondeleo: To summarise, then, Pentecostal churches are more lively, have more demonstrative preaching, and are more emotional, caring and more interactive than the regular churches?

Doc: I don't know all them words, but I would put it like this: What boogie-woogie is to music, Pentecostal is to religion. Period.

I like talkin' about church an' revivals, Tondy. It makes me feel good, as long as you ain't makin' a mockery of it. Then I would be through talkin.'